9:00 a.m.Official transcript
The committee met at 0900 in room 151.
Legislative Assembly of Ontario · Committee
Thursday, May 14, 2026
Standing Committee on Government Agencies · Room 151
The official transcript of the meeting, from Hansard, by heading. Ministers, officials and witnesses appear as the transcript names them; committees have no live transcript, so the record appears once the Assembly publishes it.
Subcommittee report
9:00 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
Good morning, everyone. I hope everyone is doing great today. Welcome to the Standing Committee on Government Agencies, which will now come to order. As always, all comments by members and witnesses should go through the Chair. First, we’ll start with the adoption of subcommittee reports. The first item of business will be the adoption of a subcommittee report which is dated Thursday, May 7, 2026. Can I please have a motion? MPP Smith.
9:00 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Laura Smith
I move adoption of the subcommittee report on intended appointments dated Thursday, May 7, 2026, on the order-in-council certificate dated May 1, 2026.
9:00 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
Any discussion? Are the members ready to vote? All those in favour? Opposed? That carries. Thank you very much.
Ms. Karen Borovay
9:00 a.m.Official transcript
Review of intended appointment, selected by third party: Karen Borovay, intended appointee as vice-chair, Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario.
9:00 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
Now we come to the most exciting portion of the committee, and that is the review of intended appointees. So we will now move to our first intended appointee, who is going to be visiting us virtually. Today, it’s Karen Borovay. She’s nominated as vice-chair of the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario. Karen, hi. Welcome.
9:01 a.m.Official transcript
9:01 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
Thank you very much for your offer of public service. I’m welcoming you to the friendliest committee at Queen’s Park. You will be able to take your time and share your story with us. Then each party will have 10 minutes to question you, but your time of presentation will be removed from the government’s time. They are okay with that, so no worries. You have the floor. Welcome.
9:01 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
Okay, thank you. Good morning to all. Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the committee. I’m grateful for the invitation to appear before you today. I’m honoured to be considered for appointment as vice-chair of the Human Rights Tribunal. My commitment to human rights is long-standing and deeply rooted. My mother was born as the war ended, as a displaced person in Russia, to two Holocaust survivors. Following more than a year in a refugee camp and arduous travel, her family eventually arrived in Montreal without the benefit of speaking the local languages and began the difficult process of rebuilding their lives in Canada. That history has profoundly shaped the values with which I was raised and impressed upon me both the fragility and the fundamental importance of human rights protections. My career has steadily prepared me for this role. I practiced as a civil litigator for 13 years, developing strong skills in evidence, procedure and decision-making. I also appeared at various levels of court as well as at mediations and pre-trials. For almost four years, I’ve served as a deputy judge of the Small Claims Court, a role that demands efficiency, fairness and clarity in reasons. In that capacity, I regularly work with self-represented litigants, emphasizing clear, well-reasoned decisions, respectful treatment of parties and timely resolution of disputes. For more than a year, I’ve been adjudicating matters at the Human Rights Tribunal. During that time, I’ve adjudicated all stages of human rights applications, including jurisdictional assessments, mediations and hearings. I’ve benefited from extensive training and have applied tribunal jurisprudence consistently and rigorously. In addition, I’ve had the honour of being appointed as one of only three tribunal-wide managing members. That role was created to address operational challenges at the tribunal, including process improvements, special projects and case management systems. It affords me the opportunity to assume institutional leadership responsibilities and expand my contributions to the tribunal, all while supporting adjudicative excellence and also adding to operational improvements. I accepted that role enthusiastically and continue to perform it alongside my adjudicative responsibilities. I’m seeking appointment as vice-chair to support the advancement of positive change, bringing professionalism, sound judgment and subject matter expertise to my adjudicative role while contributing to the effective and timely functioning of the tribunal as an institution. I believe my experience, demonstrated leadership and commitment to public service equip me well to serve in that capacity. I am mindful that public confidence in the tribunal depends on independence, fairness and consistent application of the law, and I would approach the role of vice-chair with that responsibility firmly in mind. With that, I will thank you all. I’d be pleased to answer any questions the committee may have at this time.
9:04 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
Thank you very much, Karen. Now we will go to the government side. You have seven minutes, starting with MPP Smith.
9:04 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Laura Smith
Thank you for coming today, albeit virtually. Thank you for sharing a little bit about your background. You talked about being a deputy judge, a civil litigator, a mediator. We know that the human rights tribunal has a very high caseload. How do you manage and prioritize your large caseloads? How would you ensure that you stay on top of things to ensure that the decisions are delivered within the targeted processing times? Getting decisions out is so important. It’s time-sensitive; there are so many people on the line when you’re writing those decisions. How would you keep yourself organized?
9:05 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
Thank you so much for that question. It is of utmost importance, what you have raised here. Timeliness is a foundational aspect of access to justice and procedural fairness, so I agree that managing time and ensuring a timely release of a decision is absolutely paramount in what I’m doing and what I’m considering. So what I do is—I come from a long career as a civil litigator where it was high pressure, high demand, high paced, right? This was a scenario where I had to have all sorts of tools at my disposal, where I kept everything organized. I have court filing deadlines, I have court appearances, I have other filing deadlines—things of that nature. So I employ a bunch of manners of tools including a tickler system. I have a colour-coded calendar. I have lists all around. So I manage my time; I have throughout my entire career, and that carried through into my deputy judging. Of course, the same issues face us at the Small Claims Court. So I basically transfer all of those skills, all of that experience and apply it to my role as an adjudicator at the Human Rights Tribunal. I ensure that I have I am keeping on top of everything that is going on, all the decisions that I am to be releasing, and I ensure that there is nothing missed and that the timing is respected because it is such an important aspect of procedural fairness to the parties.
9:06 a.m.Official transcript
9:06 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
Thank you very much, MPP Smith. MPP Pinsonneault.
9:06 a.m.Official transcript
Mr. Steve Pinsonneault
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for putting your name forward. You have quite a résumé, I must say. You bring experience as a lawyer, adjudicator, deputy judge and mediator. How do these diverse roles prepare you for the responsibilities of vice-chair at the tribunal?
9:07 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
Well, thank you for that. Yes, I have experience. I have knowledge. I can draw on all of these experiences that I’ve had, all of this education, so I’m the real deal, so to speak. I can bring that experience to my role as an adjudicator and the skills—luckily, I can say that there is a great deal of overlap, right? I have an aptitude for impartial adjudication. I have extensive experience with alternative adjudicative practices, alternative dispute resolution. So I am bringing all of that forward into the tribunal. I think that’s what was recognized when I was asked to become a managing member, as well, that I am applying these skills; I have a great deal of experience; I’m showing my commitment; I’m legally trained. The training at the tribunal is also fulsome. I’m actively engaged and just thoroughly enjoying my role here.
9:08 a.m.Official transcript
9:08 a.m.Official transcript
9:08 a.m.Official transcript
MPP Billy Denault
Thank you, Karen, and I appreciate you sharing your story before this committee. As you know, many parties appearing at the tribunal are self-represented. So how do you plan to ensure that all parties, regardless of legal knowledge or representation, fully understand the process and have a fair opportunity to participate?
9:08 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
Thank you. Yes, that is a hugely important aspect of what I do both in my deputy judging as well as at the tribunal. A high proportion of parties who appear before us in both arenas are self-represented litigants. These are the courts and tribunals of the people, so to speak. In order to ensure that they can actively participate, I ensure that there is understanding on the part of the parties of the procedure, of what is happening, of the law that is going to govern whatever the dispute is about. I ensure that I do not enter into the arena by basically crossing any sort of threshold of advocacy, but I ensure that everyone has a full and fair understanding of what is happening and the manner in which we will approach it, i.e., procedure. So I am open. I am transparent. I clearly define the issues, the procedure. I keep my language simple. I try to ensure that I am accommodating. I always offer breaks. If there’s a formal accommodation request, I will address that in a fulsome manner. I’m enhancing accessibility. Informality is an important tool that I tend to use. And of course, as we mentioned before, timely case resolution is an important thing to individuals and all parties, but also in the case of self-represented. So I see that as a big responsibility that is on my plate, to ensure that self-represented litigants can participate fully, and that there is no detriment to them in not having representation.
9:10 a.m.Official transcript
9:10 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
Thank you very much. We have one minute left. MPP Dowie.
9:10 a.m.Official transcript
Mr. Andrew Dowie
Thank you so much for being here, and congratulations following your recommendation through a thorough, competitive, merit-based recruitment process by Tribunals Ontario. I’m just quickly hoping you can share your impression of the process and also how you became the best candidate for the role.
9:10 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
Thank you. As you’ve said, I have gone through a rigorous, competitive, merit-based process. I have gone through interviews, I’ve written exams, and I arrive before you today having passed all of those hurdles. I’ve also contributed over a year of my time to the tribunal. I’ve had some excellent performance reviews. And so I feel that I have already—hopefully you’ll all agree with me at the end of today—proven my mettle and shown that I have the skills and the aptitude to perform the role of vice-chair to the best of my abilities, which hopefully are excellent.
9:11 a.m.Official transcript
9:11 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
Now we will go over to the official opposition—10 minutes for MPP Gates.
9:11 a.m.Official transcript
MPP Wayne Gates
Welcome here. I kind of enjoyed your presentation, your answers so far, because you’re so confident. I like that in a person, so I kind of like how you’re presenting yourself. I’ve tried to do that myself. I’m still working on it after all these years. I like how you talked about how you manage your time with stickers and books and stuff, because I’ve been watching that for 30 years with my wife, so I’m quite accustomed to how that system works, right? She doesn’t manage my time, but she certainly manages hers. I just want to ask, who asked you to apply to be vice-chair?
9:12 a.m.Official transcript
9:12 a.m.Official transcript
MPP Wayne Gates
No, you said that you were asked. Who asked you to apply for the position?
9:12 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
No, I wasn’t asked. The role of managing member that I was appointed to is essentially a training ground for a vice-chair position. Even before I applied to the tribunal as a member, I, frankly, had my eye on the vice-chair role, but I wanted to get my feet wet. It is possible to apply straight to a vice-chair position. So I decided to apply to managing member to see what it’s about, right? My love, my passion is adjudication, and so I came into this just very open. In the relatively short time that I’ve been with the tribunal, having elevated to the role of managing member and taking on more of a leadership role and seeing what that’s about, I elected to apply for vice-chair. I’m sorry if I misspoke, but that it was completely my election. I hope that I can continue with the tribunal. I’ve absolutely loved my time here, and I’m thrilled with it.
9:13 a.m.Official transcript
9:13 a.m.Official transcript
9:13 a.m.Official transcript
MPP Wayne Gates
How did you find that? Did you enjoy it? Is it something that you would promote before you get into the conflicts? What are your thoughts on mediation?
9:13 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
My thoughts on mediation are—through and through—recommend, encourage, promote. As a lawyer and also as an adjudicator, whether it’s Small Claims Court or here at the tribunal, I believe I bring an emotional intelligence to what I do. That serves me well in the context of a mediation. It is less formal. It is an environment where you can speak more openly and frankly, and you can reach the parties on a different level than when you are adjudicating a dispute on the record, all the rest. I also bear in mind the optimum cost for the tribunal. We are definitely doing good work if we can resolve a dispute without a formal hearing. For example, recently, I was presiding as a panel on a hearing. We offered mediation at the outset. The matter resolved, so we saved the tribunal a tremendous amount of time and expense by resolving the dispute early. So I tell people if you can resolve it, do so early and often, absolutely.
9:14 a.m.Official transcript
MPP Wayne Gates
The reason why I raise that is, I agree that mediation in particular in these cases should be something that we should probably promote even more, because a lot of the cases that I’ve seen and a lot of the questions that I ask people that get on these particular boards is about the fact that a lot of people can’t afford to get a lawyer. They can’t go through the system, and it kind of makes it a little tougher for them to actually to get to a point where they get a decision. Mediation gets you there quicker. Would you kind of agree with that, that it’s tougher for some people to go through the process when they have got to pay for a lawyer?
9:15 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
I couldn’t agree with you more. I point that out at the outset of mediation. I make it a part of my plenary session where I can express to people not only what you’ve expressed—that it’s time, expense and stress to get to the point of a hearing—but it’s also that settlement is a manner in which you can control the risk of a hearing and also know the outcome. You have selected it. I always make clear, “I’m not here to make any decisions today if mediation is the route and the realm we’re in,” but that this is the day where you can control all of these—costs, stress, expense—and have the peace of mind of knowing the outcome because you selected it.
9:16 a.m.Official transcript
9:16 a.m.Official transcript
9:16 a.m.Official transcript
9:16 a.m.Official transcript
9:16 a.m.Official transcript
9:16 a.m.Official transcript
9:16 a.m.Official transcript
MPP Wayne Gates
Yes, it is. Human Rights Tribunal applications have reached an average processing time of 795 days from 2024 to 2025. That’s according to the HRTO. That saying, “Justice delayed, justice denied,” comes to mind. In your experience, how does that several-year wait-list time hurt applicants?
9:17 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
As I mentioned before, timeliness is an aspect of procedural fairness, a very important one. Ensuring that there aren’t delays, ensuring that there aren’t adjournments, ensuring that there is timely resolution—these are some of the ways that we can start to work on better timelines, more efficient processes. Parties are entitled to a decision soon after a proceeding, for example. There are ways that we can try to facilitate better access to justice. But we are a high-demand, high-volume tribunal, and so my belief is, at the end of the day, it’s people power. It’s one adjudicator to one file, generally speaking. So it’s ensuring that we have competent, well-trained adjudicators—hopefully I can be one of those—continue in the role, continue to elevate myself within the tribunal and apply my own time, care, diligence and attention to actually working through the backlog.
9:18 a.m.Official transcript
MPP Wayne Gates
Thank you very much. I don’t want my colleagues get mad at me, so I’ve got to ask you these questions. Have you ever donated to a political party?
9:18 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
I don’t believe so. There is a small chance that I may have donated years and years ago—well over 10, maybe 15 years ago—to a Liberal, a small amount, but I’m not even sure that transpired.
9:18 a.m.Official transcript
9:18 a.m.Official transcript
9:18 a.m.Official transcript
9:18 a.m.Official transcript
9:18 a.m.Official transcript
9:19 a.m.Official transcript
9:19 a.m.Official transcript
9:19 a.m.Official transcript
9:19 a.m.Official transcript
9:19 a.m.Official transcript
9:19 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Laura Smith
Thank you. If I could just make note that we’re asking about the qualifications of the candidate at this point in time. That’s the nature of the questions that should come out of this room.
9:19 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
Right. We’ve been down this road before, and that is fine. MPP Gates, continue.
9:19 a.m.Official transcript
MPP Wayne Gates
I just needed a break, so I figured I’d ask that question to give them a chance to speak. I don’t know. When dealing with issues of discrimination that go to the HRTO, we know that many people who apply don’t have the resources to pay for a private lawyer. Lawyers are getting even more expensive. How do you think a lack of legal representation affects the applicant?
9:20 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
As I mentioned, at the risk of being repetitive, I ensure that there is no detriment to a party by having no legal representation. The tribunal’s also unique, certainly from my role as a deputy judge at a Small Claims Court, because—
9:20 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
Sorry to interrupt again, Karen. MPP Smith has a point of order.
9:20 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Laura Smith
Sorry, if we could just keep the line of questioning to her qualifications.
9:20 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
All right. So we’re keeping it in line with the position, but if the intended appointee feels compelled to answer, she can.
9:20 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
Well, I was going to offer—I’m fine to proceed, but I was going to offer some of the points that I might have already raised when I talked about dealing with—
9:20 a.m.Official transcript
9:20 a.m.Official transcript
9:20 a.m.Official transcript
MPP Wayne Gates
Actually, I think you’re doing a pretty good job. It’s unfortunate that she jumped in again. I think you’re answering the question well.
9:21 a.m.Official transcript
9:21 a.m.Official transcript
9:21 a.m.Official transcript
9:21 a.m.Official transcript
9:21 a.m.Official transcript
9:21 a.m.Official transcript
MPP Wayne Gates
One minute. Thank you. Do you think that current level of free legal support is adequate to help applicants who can’t afford private lawyers or paralegals?
9:21 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
Yes, I was about to reference the Human Rights Legal Support Centre, which is such a unique feature of the tribunal. I think that is a wonderful feature. It gives access to justice to individuals who can’t otherwise source it, and they offer guidance. The lawyers at the Human Rights Legal Support Centre appear at mediations. I understand that they have increased their workforce. I don’t know terribly much about the inner workings; we are independent bodies. But I think that is an incredible feature of the Human Rights Tribunal.
9:21 a.m.Official transcript
MPP Wayne Gates
Yes, and I like the idea that you mentioned about fairness, because that’s what people are really looking for when they go to it. And I like the idea that you’re asking to keep the language simple. Thank you.
9:22 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
Thank you, MPP Gates. And now, we will move to the third party for 10 minutes. We are welcoming our new guest speaker, MPP Fraser.
9:22 a.m.Official transcript
Mr. John Fraser
Thank you, Chair. Ms. Borovay, thank you very much for being here. I’ve listened to all your answers to the questions, and you’re obviously very qualified. As I’m listening to this, it sounds to me like you’re already doing the job of a vice-chair, but not with title or compensation. Is that fair?
9:22 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
I wouldn’t go so far. I won’t inflate the role. We’ll call it with training wheels, perhaps; giving me a glimpse of what it is. Right now, I don’t so much provide mentorship. I would look forward to taking on more of a mentorship role. And I am assisting vice-chair, so I’m becoming a part of those conversations, I am being tasked with work that reflects the vice-chair priorities, but what I’m looking to do is actually enter the fray of the leadership team.
9:23 a.m.Official transcript
Mr. John Fraser
Okay. I’m glad you gave that answer because sometimes in organizations—Chair, if I can have a little latitude—you’ve got to move pretty quickly, and sometimes you get thrown into things as trial by fire. So it’s good to hear that what’s happening there is you’re able to—I don’t want to say ease into the role, but get into the role in a way that you can get those skills that you need, if you need some skills, and see what the lay of the land is. One of the questions I have is, as vice-chair, it takes you away from adjudication, right? Because you have other roles and responsibilities. So how do you feel about that? Obviously, you’ve applied for the job, but it sounds like you want to adjudicate too—a lot.
9:24 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
Yes, absolutely. It’s a good question. It’s about balance. What I have had the benefit of being able to do is very much balance my caseload. I’m a part-time member, but devoting essentially full-time to the job, so I am able to manage my time. And full-timers can do this as well, but if I want to book a day off because I feel I need to write a decision or something of that nature, I can do so. The role of vice-chair may add to the demands on me, especially if there is more of a leadership or mentorship role, but it’s all about that time management we came back to. Frankly, I understand that the role at the tribunal, whether it’s member, vice-chair or above, is not about the 7.25 hours per day. If the work demands it, the work continues. I do what I can to manage my time. I’m a mother of two young children. I have family responsibilities. I try to ensure that I can devote my time and attention to my family as well, but I also understand the demands of the job and I’m very comfortable with that going forward. But outside of that, it’s about managing my time, my caseload. I am not shy in telling the powers that be, “You know what? Hold off. I need some time to catch up,” whatever the need is, and I ensure that I can devote time and attention. From there, to make sure that I can still adjudicate and apply my talents to that endeavour, I am taking more and more hearings. I’m experienced in the mediation group. I find that the leadership is very receptive to placing me where I’m needed, where my talents lie, but also where my desires are. So I’m managing everything.
9:26 a.m.Official transcript
Mr. John Fraser
So in addition to your role at the HRTO, what other work are you doing? I mean, you’re already doing a lot of work because you’re a mom and balancing that out. Is there other work that you’re doing?
9:26 a.m.Official transcript
9:26 a.m.Official transcript
9:26 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
When I started out at the Small Claims Court, I was actually coming off of maternity leave and I decided to devote, essentially, my full time and attention to that endeavour. In the first two years, roughly, of my deputy judging, I gained an incredible amount of experience. The average relatively young lawyer who’s appointed to the Small Claims Court is still managing a full-time caseload and has their full-time work. I actually stepped away from private practice at that point and devoted just inordinately more time to the endeavour. In a manner of about two years, I gained—I won’t venture a guess, but more years than that of experience, because of how frequently I was sitting. That was so wonderful, because I could devote so much time to preparation, decision-writing, being careful and very well thought out and organized. That is, in large part, what brought me to the tribunal. I wanted to continue adjudicating; that was what I loved. Now I’ve gone back, deputy judging. I’m happy to say the court at which I sit had a massive backlog issue, as many tribunals and courts do post-COVID, and I was one of many very capable deputy judges who helped clear that backlog. Now we’re in a position where there’s breathing room. I’m back to one, maybe two days a month as a deputy judge and I am generally devoting the rest of my time to the tribunal.
9:28 a.m.Official transcript
Mr. John Fraser
I wanted to ask that question because obviously you can’t burn the candle at both ends and then be able to write quality decisions, because it takes a lot of effort, but a lot of practice; you get better at it as you go along. I just want to thank you very much for taking time to answer my questions. Thanks very much for your application. You’re a great candidate.
9:28 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
Thank you very much, MPP Fraser. Karen, this concludes your time with us. You are welcome to stay online to observe the next intended appointee interview and to observe our concurrence conversation, or you can go about your merry way and have a good day. It’s entirely up to you—
9:28 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Karen Borovay
I would love to remain—sorry to interrupt. I’ll just mute myself and I’ll be here.
9:28 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
All right. Thank you very much again for sharing your story and being willing to help build a better Ontario.
Ms. Kelsey Ayow
9:29 a.m.Official transcript
Review of intended appointment, selected by third party: Kelsey Ayow, intended appointee as member, Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario.
9:29 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
We will welcome out next intended appointee, Kelsey—Ayow? I’m going to see if I butchered that.
9:29 a.m.Official transcript
9:29 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
Ayow? Okay. Kelsey is nominated as a member of the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario. You just witnessed a dress rehearsal so the same applies for you. Welcome so much to our committee. We’re happy to have you. We’re happy when people step forward to serve. You have time to share your story, and as you know, the time will be deducted from the government allocation, and then the official opposition and the third party will have 10 minutes each. So, the floor is yours, Kelsey. Welcome.
9:30 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Kelsey Ayow
Good morning, Madam Chair and members of the Standing Committee on Government Agencies. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. It’s an honour to be considered for this appointment. I’d like to briefly outline my education and experience as they relate to this role. I hold a bachelor of arts from York University’s Glendon campus as well as a Juris Doctor and bachelor of civil law from McGill University. During my education, I took a variety of courses, but my main interests were human rights and public law. I volunteered with Pro Bono Students Canada and the Legal Information Clinic at McGill, providing legal information directly to the Montreal community in a variety of areas. I worked for a sole practitioner in Montreal, and then I moved back to Toronto, where I started articling and working at a law firm in the area of immigration and refugee law. I’m a lawyer in good standing with the Law Society of Ontario. For the past five years, I’ve worked as a member and coordinating member of the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada. The IRB is the largest administrative tribunal in Canada, and the work requires timely and fair decision-making. In the refugee protection division, my work has included adjudicating refugee claims and managing a team of other adjudicators. As an IRB member, I’ve had extensive training and practice in hearing-room management, trauma-informed and culturally sensitive adjudication, procedural fairness, assessing credibility and clear decision-writing. The subject matter of my work has included issues related to race, religion, political opinion, gender-based discrimination and violence, and sexual orientation and gender identity. In addition to my adjudicative responsibilities, I often volunteer to participate in panels and working groups to support tribunal operations. For multiple hiring processes, I have graded and assessed written examinations, and I’ve sat as an interviewer on interview panels. I have been a mentor and manager for new members, guiding them through training and through their very first hearings, and I’ve participated in consultations and working groups on council conduct issues, practice notice and procedural updates and technological changes at the tribunal. Through my work as an adjudicator, I’ve seen the importance of fair and accessible decision-making at administrative tribunals. If appointed, I would approach this role at the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario with a commitment to independence, procedural fairness and applying the Human Rights Code based on the evidence and the law. Thank you very much and I welcome any questions.
9:32 a.m.Official transcript
The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)
All right. Thank you very much, Kelsey, for your background. We will now go to the government side. You have seven minutes and 15 seconds, MPP Sabawy.
9:33 a.m.Official transcript
Mr. Sheref Sabawy
Thank you very much, Kelsey, for the interest to serve the public. I understand from your profile that you are fluent in both English and French—of course, because of McGill as well—and eligible to contribute to the French-language service roster. How do you see this bilingual capacity supporting access to justice at the tribunal?
9:33 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Kelsey Ayow
Thank you very much for that question. So yes, I work—est-ce que je peux parler en français? Oui? OK. J’ai décidé aujourd’hui de me présenter en anglais, car il s’agit d’une procédure nouvelle pour moi et je me sens plus à l’aise en anglais. Mais oui, je travaille à la commission autant en français qu’en anglais. Sometimes, in my week, I do more French hearings than English hearings. I think, in the context of Ontario, where we have a significant French-speaking population, it’s important that services at a tribunal are offered in both official languages. It’s important that people have access to a hearing in French. It may not be mentioned in my application, but during my undergraduate degree, I interned for the Commissioner of Official Languages here in Toronto. So it’s definitely not lost on me, the importance of French-language services at an official tribunal.
9:34 a.m.Official transcript
9:34 a.m.Official transcript
9:34 a.m.Official transcript
Mr. Steve Pinsonneault
Thank you, Kelsey, for being here today and putting your name forward. You bring over five years’ experience as an adjudicator with the Immigration and Refugee Board, including work with the refugee protection division focusing on human rights and claims related to sexual orientation. How does this experience prepare you for the responsibilities as a member of the tribunal?
9:34 a.m.Official transcript
Ms. Kelsey Ayow
Thank you for that question. I would love to speak a bit about the intersection between federal refugee law and provincial human rights law, because it might not be apparent right away. We know the moral and legal underpinnings of the law are similar. The Human Rights Code mentions the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in its preamble, and we know that article 14 of that declaration is the basis for the refugee convention, so there is already a theoretical similarity. In practice, I think the work is very similar. One of the first things that a claimant or an applicant has to establish is a nexus either to the Human Rights Code or the refugee convention. That means they have to show that there’s a link between what they’re alleging and one of the grounds of persecution or discrimination. If you look at those grounds, there is significant overlap: race, nationality, sex, sexual orientation and gender identity. So the work is already quite similar. Because of the nature of human rights work, credibility is a major issue, and the assessment of credibility on a balance of probabilities at the IRB and at the Human Rights Tribunal is the same. The last thing that I’ll mention as well is, because you’re dealing with such sensitive matters, it’s very important that every person who appears before the tribunal is met with sensitivity—including cultural sensitivity—respect and dignity. These are issues that have a significant impact on people’s lives and have a very real human element to them.