Tuesday, April 28, 2026

The committee met at 0901 in room 151.

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Consideration of the following bill:

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Bill 100, An Act to amend the Municipal Act, 2001 and the Municipal Elections Act, 1996 / Projet de loi 100, Loi modifiant la Loi de 2001 sur les municipalités et la Loi de 1996 sur les élections municipales.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

Good morning, everyone. I call this meeting of the Standing Committee on Heritage, Infrastructure and Cultural Policy to order. We’re meeting today to begin public hearings on Bill 100, an Act to amend the Municipal Act, 2001 and the Municipal Elections Act, 1996. The Clerk of the Committee has distributed today’s meeting documents virtually via SharePoint. To ensure that everyone who speaks is heard and understood, it is important that all participants speak slowly and clearly. Please wait until I recognize you before starting to speak. As always, all comments should go through the Chair. Are there any questions before we begin? I will now call on Minister Flack, who is joining us virtually. Minister, good morning. You have 20 minutes to make an opening statement, followed by 39 minutes of questions from the members of the committee. The time for questions will be divided into two rounds of six and a half minutes for the government members, two rounds of six and a half minutes for the official opposition members and two rounds of six and a half minutes for the third party. Any questions? Minister, you may begin.

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Hon. Rob Flack

Thank you, Chair. Can— Interjection.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

I apologize. I’m sorry. MPP Gates, yes.

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MPP Wayne Gates

You never looked up. You did your reading extremely well there.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

I looked up the first time, not the second.

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MPP Wayne Gates

Is there an opportunity to make an opening comment before we get into the minister? We normally do that, because you said—we had your hand up, but you were just reading. I just want to give the chance to the Chair to say a couple of words on the committee. Interjections.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

Yes. The Clerk says you’re allowed to. It’s a quick question more than anything. Do you have a quick question about—

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Mr. Jeff Burch

My question—and I guess it’s a question—is, how are people supposed to be able to appear before committee when there’s hardly any notification? You can tell just by the number of people that are—almost everyone is appearing virtually. Many of them, obviously, have been prompted by the government. And so, I would like to ask how exactly we came to the process of having a committee meeting with almost no notice?

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

MPP Burch, consulting with the Clerk, that’s not a question that will be entertained at this point in time. We gave you a few minutes to make a statement but—

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Mr. Jeff Burch

The question was just, how did we come to the decision to have almost no notice for the meeting? Who ultimately decided that was a good way to run the committee?

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

I believe the subcommittee met, and MPP Saunderson was on that subcommittee. I’ll ask MPP Saunderson—he’s got his hand up—if you want to make a couple comments.

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Mr. Brian Saunderson

Yes, absolutely. We met last week and discussed the process and made the schedule.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

MPP Gates.

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MPP Wayne Gates

I don’t have a question. I guess what we’re trying to say is, this is extremely important right across the province of Ontario because of the number of communities that we have. And we’re saying there wasn’t enough time. For me, I was trying to do stuff last night to try to get ready for today, but there wasn’t enough time to notify stakeholders. When you have an important situation like this, why is it being forced through committee? We just want to say that we disagree with it. We think it’s wrong. We think that we should have had more time. I want to get that on record, just like Jeff wanted to get it on the record.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

Okay, MPP Gates. I believe there’s a subcommittee that occurred last week, so we’re going to go forward. MPP Saunderson.

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Mr. Brian Saunderson

I don’t want to drag this out too long, but part of the reason for expediting this process is that we want to have this bill back before the Legislature for third reading because May 1 is the date in which municipal candidates can start declaring for election. We want them to understand, if this bill is passed, the changes that will be made to their regional councils in advance. So Simcoe county and Niagara region will reduce their number of municipal councillors. We want them to know that as the election starts. That is part of the reason for this.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

Okay, thank you very much.

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MPP Wayne Gates

I appreciate that. The reality is you could have—

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

MPP Gates, we’re going to move on with the start. Interjection.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

You’re still talking.

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Mr. Jeff Burch

Just to correct—

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

MPP Burch.

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Mr. Jeff Burch

—MPP Saunderson: there are no regional councillors because they took them all away.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

Well, MPP Burch, you will have minutes for questions, so we can discuss that at the appropriate time. Right now, it’s Minister Flack’s time.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

You can begin, Minister, when you’re ready. You have up to 20 minutes.

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Hon. Rob Flack

Colleagues and everyone online, good morning. It’s great to be here. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today to speak to Bill 100, the Better Regional Governance Act, 2026, and speak to the ways in which this legislation is necessary at this moment in Ontario’s history. We are confronting a simple but pressing reality: Ontario is growing, sometimes rapidly, sometimes not so much, but always steadily. We are a growing province. People continue to choose this province as the best place to live, work and raise a family. That growth is a sign of confidence in our economy and in our communities, but it also places real and immediate pressure on our systems of housing, on our systems of infrastructure and on the capacity of our governments to respond effectively. At the same time, we are navigating economic uncertainty, rising construction costs and persistent—and I repeat, persistent—delays in approvals at the municipal and regional levels. This consequence is clear. It takes too long and it costs too much to build homes in Ontario. This is not an abstract problem. It has real impacts on families, on workers and on communities trying to plan for their future. Our government has been clear from the outset. We are taking decisive action to address those barriers, whatever they may be. We have invested in infrastructure, removed or reformed approval processes and worked to align policy across ministries and all levels of governance. But through all of this work, one conclusion has become unavoidable: Governance matters, structures matter, performance matters and results matter. How decisions are made is just as important as what decisions are made. If governance structures are slow, fragmented or misaligned, even the best policies will struggle to deliver results. That is what Bill 100 is designed to help solve. This legislation is about ensuring that regional governance in Ontario is equipped to meet the demands of today’s challenges. It is about creating the conditions for faster decision-making, better coordination, clearer accountability and consistency. Ultimately, it is about one thing: getting more homes built, supported by the infrastructure communities need now and in a way that is timely, predictable and cost-effective. This is not change for its own sake. It is targeted, deliberate modernization grounded in a clear objective: protecting Ontario’s future by ensuring our communities can grow and succeed. Bill 100 introduces a focused set of reforms to strengthen how regional governments operate, particularly in areas experiencing significant growth pressures, notably Simcoe county and the Niagara region. At its core, this legislation does three things: It provides consistent leadership at the regional level, it streamlines governance structures where they have become inefficient and it improves alignment between provincial and municipal priorities so that decisions can be made more quickly and more effectively. (1) The bill enables the province to appoint regional chairs in specific upper-tier municipalities, building on authorities that already exist and have been used in parts of Ontario. This is not a novel concept. It is an evolution of an approach that has already demonstrated good results. (2) It extends strong-chair powers similar to strong-mayor powers to these positions. These are targeted authorities designed to advance shared provincial-municipal priorities, particularly housing and infrastructure. They are not broad or unchecked powers. They are focused tools to ensure that critical decisions are made and do not stall success. (3) The bill streamlines council composition in regions where size and structure have become barriers to effective governance. In Niagara and Simcoe, for example, council sizes would be adjusted to better reflect the provincial average and to improve efficiency and accountability. Each of these elements responds directly to a problem we have identified through experience. On leadership, today there is no consistent method for selecting heads of regional councils. Some are elected, some are appointed by a county council, and some are appointed by the province. This patchwork creates inconsistency, unaccountability and unalignment while also introducing inherent self-interests where none should be present. Regions work for the municipalities. I want to emphasize this: It’s not the other way around. Regions work for the municipalities they support. They do not supersede the municipalities. At a time when coordination is essential, inconsistency becomes a barrier. By enabling provincial appointments in key regions, we’re creating greater consistency and ensuring that leadership is aligned with the shared goal of delivering housing and critical infrastructure. This is about clarity of purpose. It’s about ensuring that everyone is working toward the same outcomes. On strong-chair powers, we have already seen the impact of these tools at the municipal level. They help prioritize key projects, streamline processes and keep decisions moving. Extending these powers to the regional level is a logical next step. Regional governments are responsible for many of the systems that enable housing: water, waste water, transportation, planning and policing. If decisions at this level are delayed, the entire system slows down to a crawl. These powers are carefully scoped. They are tied to advancing provincial priorities. They are accountable. They are designed to remove bottlenecks, not to override the democratic process. On council size and structure, in some regions, governance has simply become unwieldly. Large councils can lead to duplication, prolonged debate and delayed decisions. In Niagara, for example, the size of council is disproportionate to its population. That has real impacts and consequences on the pace of decision-making. By streamlining these structures we’re improving efficiency while maintaining representation through locally elected mayors. This is about ensuring that councils are functional, focused and able to deliver results. Taken together, these changes reflect a coherent approach. We’re not altering the fundamentals of local governance. Municipal councils remain elected. Local voices remain central. What we are doing is strengthening the framework within which those voices also operate so that decisions can be made effectively. This is also part of a broader strategy. Our government has made historic investments in municipal infrastructure, and we have reformed approvals through these processes. We have introduced measures to reduce costs and accelerate development. Bill 100 complements these actions by ensuring governance structures do not undermine the progress we are making throughout the province. Because ultimately, the goal is not simply to change governance. The goal is to deliver better outcomes such as more homes, better infrastructure and stronger communities. I want to turn now to one of the most frequently raised critiques of this legislation: the question of democratic legitimacy, particularly with respect to the appointment of regional chairs. This is an important issue, and it deserves a clear and direct response. First, it is essential to understand the role of a regional chair. Regional governments do not replace local democracy. They were never meant to do that. They support it. The primary decision-makers at the regional level are the mayors and the councillors who are directly elected by their communities. They bring forward the priorities of their residents. The chair’s role is fundamentally different. It’s to facilitate, to coordinate and to ensure that the work of council proceeds effectively. It does not dictate outcomes or override the will of elected representatives. In that sense, the chair’s function is much like the chair of a board of directors, guiding discussions, setting agendas and helping to bring members together around shared priorities. This is the goal. While disagreements will arise—they always do, and should, quite frankly—the chair’s role is simple: serve in the best interest of the collective whole. The region, not any one person, community or interest, should be at the fore. This is particularly important in regional governments, where multiple municipalities with different perspectives must work together. Second, appointed chairs are not new to Ontario. They are already a feature of our municipal system. In fact, a significant portion of Ontario’s population currently lives in regions with appointed leadership. Over half of all the citizens who live in the Peel and York regions live under provincially appointed chairs. Simply put, Chair, it is working. Furthermore, the history of regional government is one of non-elected chairs, just as how the county system works much across Ontario. This is not a departure from precedent. It is an extension of a model that has been used for decades and has evolved over time to meet changing needs in Ontario. Third, the changes proposed in Bill 100 do not diminish democratic accountability. Local councils remain elected. Mayors remain elected. They continue to make decisions, set budgets and represent their communities. What the legislation does do is ensure that the individual facilitating that process, the chair, is aligned with the broader objective of delivering results in areas where coordination across municipalities is critical. It is also important to emphasize that appointments, as have been made in the past in Peel and York, as I noted, are not arbitrary. These chairs will be proven leaders, selected based on merit, experience and integrity and vetted by the Integrity Commissioner of Ontario, as all must do already. This ensures that those appointed are credible, qualified and capable of fulfilling the responsibilities of the chair role. Finally, I would address the broader concern about centralization. This legislation is not about centralizing power at the provincial level—far from it. It is about improving coordination across levels of government. Regional governments exist precisely because of certain challenges like infrastructure and planning across municipal boundaries. They come together with the region to bring scale, to bring critical mass, so we can bring that value to the ratepayer. Addressing those challenges effectively requires alignment. It requires leadership that can bring municipalities together and work in partnership with the province. That is what this legislation enables and improves, frankly. In fact, by improving coordination and reducing delays, we are strengthening the ability of local governments to deliver for their residents. When we speak about democratic legitimacy, we must consider not only how leaders are selected but how effectively the system delivers for the people it serves. Ontarians expect results. The provincial government and our Premier expect results. They expect homes to be built on time, infrastructure to be delivered on time and decisions to be made in a timely way. Bill 100 is designed to meet those expectations. In addition, Chair, I want to take a moment to underscore how these reforms fit with the broader principle that has guided our work from the beginning. That word is partnership. Strong communities are built when orders of government are working together with clarity, with purpose and with a shared understanding of what needs to be achieved. That is what Ontarians expect. They do not distinguish between municipal, regional and provincial responsibilities when they’re trying to find a home, when they’re sitting in congested traffic or when they are waiting for infrastructure to catch up with growth. They expect their governments to function as one system, coordinated, responsive and focused on results to their benefit.

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Hon. Rob Flack

What Bill 100 does do is reinforce a partnership by ensuring that regional governance is not a point of friction within that system but a point of strength. It recognizes that regional governments occupy a unique and critical space. They bring the scale and critical mass of a group of regional municipalities together to hopefully deliver better value for their taxpayers. That is the purpose of regional government. They are responsible for infrastructure systems that enable growth, water, waste water, transportation corridors and long-range planning along with public safety. When those systems work well, growth happens effectively. When they do not, everything slows down to a grind. That is why alignment matters. That is why clarity in leadership matters. And that is why the ability to make timely decisions matters. Through this legislation, we are ensuring that regional governments are better positioned to fulfill that role. We are equipping them with leadership that can bring municipalities together, tools that can keep decisions moving and structures that support efficiency rather than delay. I would also emphasize that this is not a one-size-fits-all approach imposed without consideration of local realities. The changes proposed for Niagara and Simcoe, for example, reflect specific challenges and locally identified needs. In Simcoe, there has already been significant local work to examine council size and structure. In Niagara, concerns about efficiency and effectiveness have been well documented for months, if not years, if not decades. What we are doing is building on that local input and providing a pathway to implement solutions that might otherwise remain out of reach. This is about enabling progress, not dictating it. As we look ahead, it is important to recognize that modernization is not a one-time exercise. Governance systems must evolve as conditions change. The pressures we are facing today—rapid population growth, infrastructure demands and economic uncertainty—are different in scale and complexity from those that existed when regional governments were first established. Our responsibility is to ensure that our institutions evolve accordingly. Bill 100 reflects that responsibility. It is a measured, thoughtful response to the realities we see on the ground. It is informed by experience and by engagement with municipal partners and by a clear understanding of where the system is working and where the system is not working. Most importantly, it is focused on outcomes, because at the end of the day, success will not be measured by the structure of governance alone. It will be measured by whether more homes are built, whether infrastructure keeps pace, and growth, and gets implemented in an effective way and whether communities across Ontario remain places where people can build their lives with confidence in the future. That is the standard we are holding ourselves to, and that is the standard this legislation is designed to meet. Chair, I will conclude by returning to the central question before us: Why does this matter? It matters because governance is not an abstract concept. It has real consequences for how quickly homes can be built, how effectively infrastructure is delivered and how effectively communities can respond to the growth they are seeing. When governance systems are slow and fragmented, the impacts are felt by families looking for housing—their first house, their downsizing house, their purpose-built rental, their social housing—also by businesses trying to invest and by municipalities trying to plan for the future. We cannot afford these delays any longer. Bill 100 is about ensuring that our governance structures match the scale and urgency of the challenges we face. It’s about strengthening leadership, improving coordination and creating the conditions for faster, more predictable decision-making. It’s about aligning all orders of government around a shared objective, and that’s getting shovels in the ground faster, building the infrastructure and homes that support strong growing communities. This legislation does not replace local voices; in fact, it supports them. It provides the tools and structures needed to ensure that those voices can translate into action. Ultimately, it’s about protecting Ontario, protecting our ability to grow and how we grow. It’s about protecting our economic competitiveness, about protecting our opportunity for families to find a place they call home. The decisions we make today will shape the future of this province for decades to come. That line has been used for generations, but it still is true: Chair, the decisions we make today will shape the future of the province for decades to come. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to this important legislation this morning, and then I’ll happily answer any of your questions. Thank you, Chair.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

Thank you, Minister, for your presentation. We’re going to start the questioning for six and a half minutes with the government side. MPP Saunderson.

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Mr. Brian Saunderson

Thank you, Minister, for your presentation this morning. We’ve talked many times about the pressures in Ontario and the housing crisis. This government has been working through an iterative process to try and address these issues moving forward, in particular the role of governance. I come from Simcoe county and served on Simcoe county council, so I know first-hand about some of the pressures you’re talking about. I was wondering if you could just outline for committee the interplay that happens between regional and the Simcoe county government and the province, and what you have seen in terms of maybe speed bumps in that existing structure, and how this legislation is designed to streamline that to increase coordination so that we can get moving on these provincial priority issues?

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Hon. Rob Flack

Well, thank you, MPP Saunderson—a great question. As you know, coming from Simcoe county, you and I collectively have seen the challenges that you have just identified. As the parliamentary assistant to our ministry, you’ve also been very much involved in the comings and goings of all things Simcoe. Simcoe is a fantastic place. It is a massive county. And probably, if you could look back in time, it may be—I don’t want to call it too big, but it maybe is too big based on the realities of today. When you take a look at Simcoe and you take a look at the GTA, and how it has grown, how it has expanded—I will admit, when I was a young fellow driving up there selling feed with Masterfeeds, never did I think we would see the growth that we see in Simcoe county today. So, like the rest of the province, it’s been hard to digest that growth. Frankly, south Simcoe is going to be the new York, the new Peel, the new Durhams of the GTHA. It’s growing that fast. Look at the infrastructure we’ve been investing in, look at the homes that need to be built, look at the investments in economic developments such as Honda. It continues to grow. So we need to make sure that we’re responsive. That’s why we’re approving the official plans as fast as we can. That’s why OPA 7 is being dealt with effectively. That’s why we’re looking at the basic infrastructure we need. And we need a regional council that can work effectively. Thirty-two members of that council is not efficient. It does not provide good governance, in my humble opinion. That is why we’re changing it. It is important that we streamline that particular system, like Niagara. Thirty-two doesn’t work, so we’re going to go down to 17—16, plus a chair—and, again, representing all of Simcoe county in a more effective and broad way. And that includes whether it’s through the service managers, through homelessness funding, whether it’s through getting more shovels in the ground faster for critical infrastructure. And I would point out, in Simcoe county—and I think you will agree, MPP Saunderson—looking at municipal service corporations—again, publicly owned—is a critical need in Simcoe county that we can help advance in a more meaningful way under the benefits of Bill 100.

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Mr. Brian Saunderson

Thank you, Minister. I appreciate that answer. There were a couple of comments you made during your presentation this morning about respecting the democratic process and local representation. And part of that comes by recognizing the division of powers, essentially, between the regional or upper-tier government and the lower-tier municipalities. My understanding is this legislation is aimed at dealing with the governance model for the upper tier, but it’s not changing the jurisdiction of each of the local tiers. I’m wondering if you could just speak to how we’re not interfering with local representation at the municipal level but really looking at the upper tiers to try and streamline that.

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Hon. Rob Flack

Simcoe will basically act like a county council and, ultimately, Niagara will as well. The mayor is representing their local communities. Take a look at the county system throughout the province—I think it has been around since there weren’t municipalities. You bring the collective good—scale and critical mass for a particular geography or region—together, and you look at water, waste water, policing, social services, whatever it may be that you can do by scale. And when you do that effectively, you represent the municipalities that it represents. Every one of these mayors in Simcoe that is going to sit on county council represents their local constituents. They have the voice. They are the regional council. And I think people, over time, have mistaken the fact that municipalities serve the regional council. It’s the other way around; the regional council is meant to be, again, that collective good for bringing scale together to get shovels in the ground faster—more efficient, better scale, better costing, better value for the ratepayer.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

You have 60 seconds.

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Hon. Rob Flack

When you’ve got a mayor sitting at the table representing their particular region, it works and will continue to work. And I believe Simcoe will work more effectively, especially with all the growth—massive growth—we’re seeing in Simcoe county. So thank you for those questions.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

You have 36 seconds.

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Mr. Brian Saunderson

I’ll slide a quick one in, if I can. Minister, I understand that, of the regional chairs that are in existence today, only 20% are actually elected by the residents; 80% are appointed by a level of government—either the province or the local government. Just if you have time for comment: Do you see this change—or evolution, as you refer to it—reducing any kind of democratic representation of our residents?

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

You have 10 seconds.

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Hon. Rob Flack

I do not. Some 50% of the people who live under regional government in Ontario are in Peel and York, and it’s working there.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

We’ll now continue questions. Over to MPP Burch for the official opposition.

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Mr. Jeff Burch

Good morning, Minister.

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Hon. Rob Flack

Good morning, Jeff. How are you?

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Mr. Jeff Burch

I’m good. Look, I want to start off by saying that, obviously, we on the opposition side see this bill as a serious attack on local democracy, but I want to cut through the opinion and just get to the basis of what this bill actually does. It gives this government and its unelected, hand-picked chairs unprecedented power over regional municipal budgets and operations. There’s no doubt about that. It takes power away from municipal taxpayers and their elected representatives. So the effort to make this sound as if it’s more democratic quite frankly flies in the face of what the bill actually does. It allows the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing to appoint the regional chairs of Durham, Halton, Muskoka, Niagara, Peel, Waterloo and York, as well as the warden of Simcoe county. So people’s property taxes are going to be set by someone they never elected and can never remove. The appointed regional chairs will control billions of dollars in municipal budgets with no accountability to the people paying the bills. The unelected chair would also gain so-called strong-mayor powers, which I know we’ve heard that they’ve been successful in Ontario, but there’s absolutely no evidence to show that there’s been any success whatsoever. But those hand-picked appointees can set regional budgets, hire and fire the regional administrator and top staffers, and pass bylaws with the support of just one third of council. That’s not democratic. In my conversations with local councillors, I have to say they’ve felt really disrespected through the process and I’ve been waiting for an opportunity to address that issue. In March, the Premier came to Niagara and there are a number of councillors who—the appointed regional chair had thrown Niagara into a state of chaos by pushing a forced amalgamation scheme. A lot of the councillors had a problem with that, in both upper and lower tiers. And the Premier came into town and called them all turkeys. I’m just wondering—I served on council as a part-time councillor, just like hundreds of people all across the province. It’s a hard job. I think I made a little over $18,000; no office, no staff, running out of my house, phone calls about snowplowing in the middle of Christmas dinner. That’s what you do as a part-time councillor. It’s a really noble thing for citizens to step up and do. I served two terms on St. Catharines council. I was the budget chair as well for a couple of years. And one of the councillors, Councillor Bruce Williamson, expressed his concern about the Premier’s comments and I wanted to read that into the record. He said, “The disrespect and the contempt that Doug Ford has shown for local democracy is summed up by him labelling us as turkeys.... The Premier calls us turkeys, locally-elected representatives. I find it personally insulting and degrading to the many terrific” principled “councils I have served with in the past and continue to work with today, who have the courage to allow their name to stand for election to serve their friends and neighbours and local government. “In turn, it is a repudiation of the people in this community, the little guys Ford claims to care about.” That’s the emotion I got from the hard-working part-time councillors in our region. I wanted to give you an opportunity to say—do you agree that it’s appropriate for the Premier to come into our region and call all of those elected representatives a bunch of turkeys?

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Hon. Rob Flack

Thank you for your comments, MPP Burch. We’ve had some good, spirited discussions about this, and I appreciate your input, especially from the fact that you and your partner in crime next to you are from the Niagara region. Look, the bottom line is, anyone who puts their name on a ballot deserves to be respected. That being said, I think this government has done so. Always remember, too: What the former chair presented to me and to our government in terms of reform was a recommendation. We had not accepted it. We listened to it. It was presented to and also reviewed by all of the mayors. They didn’t agree with that particular analysis at the time, and we moved on. We didn’t accept that original proposal. A second one came in, and I did deal directly with every mayor, talked to every one of them directly—talked to you directly, talked to MPP Gates directly. I’ve talked to MPP and Minister Sam Oosterhoff directly. We listened, and so then we acted. Bottom line in Niagara is—and you can agree or disagree—you’ve got more municipal politicians in the Niagara region than sit in the Legislature, 126 today. For the record, they are all still municipalities in place. They are councils or mayors that are still in place.

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Mr. Jeff Burch

With all respect, Minister, my question was about the regional chairs. Quite frankly, appointing Bob Gale—we all know that having a signed copy of Hitler’s manifesto was not really the reason he resigned. He threw the region into chaos in only two months. It was a real—I mean, calling it a “shitshow” is polite. It was really, really bad. That’s the kind of person that your government—I don’t know if it was you personally—picked as the chair. Is that what we can expect in the future? What kind of qualifications are you looking for? They just have to be a former Conservative candidate? What are the criteria?

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

Eight seconds.

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Hon. Rob Flack

We’re working on the criteria. Stay tuned. There will be a vetting process and a very strong due diligence.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

Thank you, Minister. I’m afraid we’re out of time.

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Hon. Rob Flack

No problem.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

Moving on to the third party: MPP Blais.

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Mr. Stephen Blais

Good morning, Minister.

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Hon. Rob Flack

Morning.

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Mr. Stephen Blais

I presume you’re appearing before us today from your riding, in Elgin–Middlesex–London.

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Hon. Rob Flack

I am indeed.

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Mr. Stephen Blais

It’s nice to be able to stay in your constituency during constituency week and not be forced to come to downtown Toronto. I’m sure you would agree. Minister, when your government introduced strong-mayor powers, the justification for those powers was that they came with a direct mandate from voters. Is that still the view of your government?

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Hon. Rob Flack

Sorry, could you just repeat the last part of the question?

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Mr. Stephen Blais

When your government introduced strong-mayor powers, the justification for those powers was that it came with a direct mandate from voters. I’m wondering if that is still the view of your government.

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Hon. Rob Flack

The purpose of strong-mayor powers—and now strong-chair powers, should this legislation pass—is to align with provincial priorities, predominantly infrastructure and housing. It’s interesting that the opposition slams away at housing starts, which I understand and acknowledge have been difficult. We’re trying to create the environment, the conditions to get more homes built faster. That’s why we’re enabling and giving those strong-chair powers to mayors and to regional chairs.

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Mr. Stephen Blais

I appreciate that. Other than public oral statements, either from you, your previous minister or the Premier, is the list of subject matters where the mayor or now chairs can use these strong powers articulated in writing anywhere?

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Hon. Rob Flack

They are for strong-mayor powers. We’re working on those for strong-chair powers. They will be similar, in my opinion.

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Mr. Stephen Blais

Your view is that they’re limited in scope to issues that will facilitate housing, economic development, infrastructure and policing, I think is what you said during your remarks.

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Hon. Rob Flack

That is true. By the way, it’s in the regulation. I don’t have it in front of me, but if you read the regulation, you’ll see—

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Mr. Stephen Blais

That’s fine. I’ll take a look at that. Thank you. Minister, can you articulate for us decisions made by regional councils that don’t relate to infrastructure, housing, policing or economic development?

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Hon. Rob Flack

No.

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Mr. Stephen Blais

Okay, so effectively, then, the strong-chair powers will relate to all decisions made by regional council.

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Hon. Rob Flack

No, they will not. They will be limited to—if you read the regulation, you will see exactly what the strong-mayor powers are meant to do.

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Mr. Stephen Blais

But Minister, you just said that you can’t think of decisions that regional councils make that aren’t related to housing, economic development, infrastructure or policing. And I would tend to agree with you.

Official source

Hon. Rob Flack

Well, okay. Policing would be one; social services would be one that I don’t think aligns with that, as two examples.

Official source

Mr. Stephen Blais

Sir, I thought you said policing would be an issue where strong-mayor powers could be used.

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Hon. Rob Flack

Where the provincial party lines up, yes, but if it doesn’t, it’s up to the chairs. Remember, with strong-mayor powers—take a look at how many times they’ve been used since they were put into regulation—very few. And taking a look at some of these regional governments, they don’t act efficiently and effectively. This is to help move things along. Some mayors have used, I would add, strong-mayor powers very effectively. Take a look at the mayor of London, to get housing done—with the council’s full support, and also through budget processes.

Official source

Mr. Stephen Blais

Now, Minister, you said that the appointed chair, now coupled with strong-chair powers, will not override the will of elected officials. But if in order to pass a budget; in order to make a decision about housing locations; in order to make a decision about infrastructure, say, big roads or a water facility, a recreation facility; in order to make a decision about some other policing priority which is yet to be defined by your government, the chair only requires one third of council, how is one third of council plus an unelected chair not overriding the will of voters, whose representatives represent the other two thirds?

Official source

Hon. Rob Flack

As I’ve said many times, we will continue to monitor how they are used. If strong-mayor powers are abused, we will step in. Again, it’s to regulation. Take a look at the—if this had not been working for the most part in an effective way in Ontario already, we wouldn’t have done this. They have been working. These chairs still have to work very closely with their regional councillors, albeit elected or the mayors that serve on those councils. And we’ve seen this work. It has worked in York, it has worked in Peel, and I am confident it will work in the regions in the months ahead.

Official source

Mr. Stephen Blais

In fairness, Minister, neither in York nor in Peel can the chair override the will of the majority of an elected council—yet. Minister, with the appointed regional chairs that will have this superpower to override elected officials, who will they be accountable to? Will they be accountable to you? Will they be accountable to the Premier? Who is ultimately the accountability mechanism there?

Official source

Hon. Rob Flack

Well, the ultimate accountability, as I think we all know, are the people that elect these mayors, elect you, elect me, elect the Premier—

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Mr. Stephen Blais

But the chair will be appointed and not elected.

Official source

Hon. Rob Flack

The chair will be accountable to his council, to the regional council, will also have accountability to ensuring the provincial priorities, tied in with municipal priorities, are implemented effectively.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

Fifty-five seconds.

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Mr. Stephen Blais

So, the regional council will be able to remove the appointed chair, based on that accountability mechanism?

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Hon. Rob Flack

I believe if there’s issues and the regional councils are not happy, I’m sure they will communicate with me, to our government, and I will listen, like I have before and did so, for example, in Niagara.

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Mr. Stephen Blais

Okay, but ultimately, though, the decision to remove the appointed strong chair will be yours, or the government’s.

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Hon. Rob Flack

That is the way the legislation looks today, but that doesn’t mean—we communicate with them and also with all members—

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Mr. Stephen Blais

We are here to consider amendments to that legislation. You would be open, then, to changing that particular aspect of the legislation to ensure more accountability?

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Hon. Rob Flack

I don’t think it needs to be changed, because it exists in the legislation before you today.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

Nine seconds.

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Mr. Stephen Blais

Yes, that’s fine, Madam Chair. Thank you.

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Hon. Rob Flack

And I would just point out, if I could, Chair—

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

Two seconds.

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Hon. Rob Flack

I’m in my riding today because I’m doing government business, not riding business.

Official source

The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

Thank you very much, Minister. We’re going now to the second round of questioning for the government’s side. MPP Sandhu.

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Mr. Amarjot Sandhu

Good morning, Minister. We appreciate you for appearing before the committee and for your presentation. Even though you touched on that in your remarks, could you please speak to why speed and predictability in the planning and approval system are so important in this context, particularly given Ontario’s housing demand and infrastructure pressures?

Official source

Hon. Rob Flack

Thank you for the question. I’ve been in this role for a little over a year now, and the one thing that has come to me in a glaring way is how long it takes to get infrastructure and housing built. Again, I’m not blaming anyone in particular through the processes. We are just very bureaucratic. I would preface my remarks by suggesting that we are in a very competitive world. When I talk to home builders that build on both sides of the border about economic development opportunities on both sides of the border, we as a municipal government, as a provincial government, have not been able to act nimbly enough. Whether it’s the official plan process, whether it’s the building code, whether it’s—in my opinion, in some cases—overburdened studies and regulations, it just takes too long and costs too much to get housing and infrastructure built. That’s why we’re changing this. This is part of the process. We are aligning ourselves to make speed our friend. So in the broader picture, I think what we are going to accomplish through this is the ability to do that. Take a look at how effectively Peel region has worked. They are going to be the model. That’s where you’re from, from Brampton. Take a look at the municipal services corps that we are going to stand up. Peel is the pilot. Peel is one pilot; it’ll be many more across the province, across all the regions, because there is an absolute need and an absolute desire to get those done, put those stood up. We will continue to remove the red tape, remove the bureaucracy, remove the extended time it takes to get this critical infrastructure put in the ground, including housing.

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Mr. Amarjot Sandhu

Thank you.

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

MPP Babikian, please.

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Mr. Aris Babikian

Good morning, Minister. Thank you very much for sharing your valuable input with the committee. During the debate, we have heard criticism of the bill that you have just addressed. But there has been less discussion of how the current regional governance system is actually functioning in practice today and how it is coping under the current pressures. Could you speak in more detail about what you see as the core structural challenges in the existing model, particularly around duplication of roles, misaligned priorities between upper- and lower-tier municipalities and delays in decision-making that can emerge when responsibilities are split across multiple layers of government?

Official source

Hon. Rob Flack

Thank you for the question. I’ll quote you some numbers just to prove the point. In the regional municipality of Peel, there are almost 1.5 million people. In the regional municipality of Niagara, there are 478,000 people. When you take a look at the size of the regional governments in both, it’s disproportionate. You’ve got 31 regional councillors in Niagara and 25 in Peel—I could go through all these different numbers. The example in Niagara I will suggest is inefficiency. While these people serve—and, respectfully, they serve and still serve and will until the end of their mandate in October when the municipal election exists—we are trying to bring consistency across these regions. There is no consistency, and there should be. It doesn’t mean that local municipalities still can’t have their local voice, can’t represent their ratepayers in an effective way, but we need consistency. That is what this bill is trying to accomplish and, I believe, will accomplish. Always, we are open. If there’s improvements to be made in the years to come, we’re willing to listen and learn. I think we all can acknowledge that.

Official source

The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

Okay. MPP Anand, there’s a minute and a half.

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Mr. Deepak Anand

Oh, that’s great. Thank you, Minister, for coming to the committee and representing here today. I just want to ask, adding onto what my colleague talked about: Where do you see the most significant gap between current outcomes and what is needed to meet projected growth? How have these gaps evolved in recent years as precious, as we all know, and the housing infrastructure capacity and municipal coordination have increased? Can you explain that to all of us?

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The Chair (Hon. Laurie Scott)

You have 50 seconds, Minister.

Official source