Thursday, August 27, 2026

The committee met at 0902 in committee room 1.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

Good morning, everyone. The sensational Standing Committee on Government Agencies will now come to order. As always, all comments by members and witnesses should go through the Chair. Thank you for coming today. I appreciate it.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

Our first item of business will be the adoption of a subcommittee report. We have a subcommittee report dated Thursday, August 20, 2026. Could I have a motion, please? MPP Smith.

Official source

Ms. Laura Smith

I move adoption of the subcommittee report on intended appointments dated Thursday, August 20, 2026, on the order-in-council certificate dated August 14, 2026.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

Any discussion? MPP Gates.

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

It’s always a pleasure to be back at committee. But once again, I’m very disappointed that this committee has had the opportunity to call 13 people I’m aware of—there may be more than that—and we have five people coming to this committee. I think I spoke on this a few weeks ago, and here we are. We’re all giving up our summer to come here. Some of us are travelling a long way. I know my colleague from Windsor is driving in from Windsor or flying in from Windsor, one of the two—

Official source

Mr. Andrew Dowie

Train.

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

I think it’s not much to ask, if somebody wants to sit on a committee, that they can come by Zoom, they can come in person. I think it’s wrong. I think it’s important for this committee, for its credibility, that people come to the committee. I’m going to tell you an example which I think is fair and reasonable, and I think the Conservatives may even agree on this. There’s an individual named Jeff Lang who is the CEO and president of the WSIB. On December 29, 2024, during the Christmas break, the Legislature wasn’t sitting, and we could have called the committee back, and we didn’t. It was recommended to him that he get on the committee of WSIB, as president, by the labour minister at the time, who happened to be a good friend of mine, Monte McNaughton. On January 28—the same day that we called the election in 2025—he was appointed. Details of that appointment are that he makes $440,000 a year, plus a pension. And if he’s not reappointed, he gets a buyout of $440,000. Now, as we saw last week, including in Windsor, he has made the decision to close offices all over the province of Ontario—Windsor, St. Catharines, Sudbury, Thunder Bay, the Soo, North Bay, Guelph, Kingston. We’re losing hundreds of jobs, some very skilled jobs—who are taking care of some of the people who are injured on the job; people who go to work every day, want to get a fair day’s pay, a fair day’s wages. Through no fault of their own, they get hurt on the job and they have to go on WSIB. And we’re closing those offices. The part that I raise here is that he was a failed PC federal candidate in the election, and he got appointed, without coming to the committee, to a $440,000 job. I believe that’s more than anybody in this room is making, by the way. I’m guessing; I don’t know the PCs’ salaries.

Official source

Mr. Matthew Rae

Come on, Wayne. It’s reported.

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

I’m just saying. I’m just trying to be clear here: I think it’s wrong. Another example of that is in the last election. I ran against Ruth-Ann Nieuwesteeg, who was defeated. I beat her, obviously, or I wouldn’t be here—I won’t say “by 8,000 votes,” but I did. She was appointed to the Ontario tourism board. She’s a funeral director and owns a funeral home. I know a lot of people are dying to come to Niagara Falls, but that doesn’t make sense to me. These are examples on why I believe—and I’ve been very consistent on this; I’ve been on this committee a long, long time—that I think it’s important for people to come to this committee. Getting back to my original statement—because I think Jeff Lang is a great example and Ruth-Ann is another great example—I want this committee to work. We’re going to have a tough guy coming at 9 o’clock—he’s going to face some tough questions. But do you know what? He’s here. He knows that he’s going to get some tough questions, but he’s here.

Official source

Ms. Laura Smith

Point of order.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

MPP Smith, point of order.

Official source

Ms. Laura Smith

With all due respect, I want this committee to work as well, so I’d like to get to the task at hand, which is interviewing the candidates.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

Could you wrap up?

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

I can appreciate that, but we’ve got an extra half-hour since we’ve only got five candidates nominated.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

We’re trying to make it relevant.

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

I appreciate that, but I think it’s important to the community outside there—to us on our time and the value of our time. I said that my colleague from Windsor—that’s a four-hour drive, to come to Toronto. I don’t think we’re asking people who want to come and sit on committees—to come here or to come by Zoom, it’s not too much. So my last question will be, how many people were asked to come to committee this time? I have 13, but it may be more.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

Yes, everyone who was requested was asked to come, and for certain reasons, they could not. Some were travelling. Some had medical appointments. So those who could attend are attending, either virtually or in person, as are—

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

I can appreciate that, but I’d like to know the number.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

The number who were asked to come?

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

I understand that they were all asked to come. We know five are coming. How many refused?

Official source

The Clerk of the Committee (Ms. Vanessa Kattar)

There are nine individuals on the subcommittee report dated August 20. All nine were requested to appear before the committee.

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

So four of them said, “We’re not coming. We’ll just wait for the 30 days and then we’ll get appointed”—like what has been happening in this committee for a long, long time.

Official source

The Clerk of the Committee (Ms. Vanessa Kattar)

Two of them said they were travelling, one of them had a medical appointment, and the other one said that they had a pre-scheduled meeting that they could not move.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

MPP Gilmour.

Official source

MPP Alexa Gilmour

This is the reason why I think it’s very important that we as a committee extend those certificates. We have seen multiple times—some of these are very valid reasons. It’s the summer. People are travelling. People have medical experiences. But someone who is getting a $440,000 salary should at least get an interview here before they receive that kind of responsibility. There’s an accountability factor. That is what this committee is set to do, and we are failing to do our job when we do not bring these people before us. Again, I would urge my colleagues, when it is time to extend the certificates, that we do not hesitate, but that we do immediately extend those certificates and give people the opportunity to come before us. Give the people of Ontario the accountability that they have come to expect from—well, I would say this government, but I think that we know that that is actually failing at the moment. So let’s do better. Let’s show that this committee can be accountable and can hold people accountable and look after the people of Ontario by extending those certificates and ensuring that they come before us.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

Are the members ready to vote? All those in favour? All those opposed? That carries.

Official source

Review of intended appointment, selected by official opposition party and third party: Peter Van Loan, intended appointee as member, University of Toronto governing council.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

Our first intended appointee is the Honourable Peter Leo Van Loan, nominated as a member of the University of Toronto governing council. Welcome, Peter. We just had to do a little housekeeping there first. Now it is your time, and we would love to hear from you. You have some time to present and share your story and your wealth of experience. After that, each party will question you for 10 minutes. Whatever time you take is removed from the government’s time, and they are perfectly fine with that and happy with that. Look at those smiles. So without further ado, the floor is yours. Peter, welcome, and thank you for your willingness to continue to serve.

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I want to thank the committee for the invitation to appear today with respect to the board of governors at the University of Toronto. The continued success of the University of Toronto as Canada’s leading post-secondary institution means a great deal to me. On a personal level, I’ve graduated from the University of Toronto three times. I attended Victoria College at the University of Toronto, obtaining my BA, with a specialist in political science and a minor in geography. My master of arts degree was in international relations. Finally, I obtained a master of science in planning from U of T’s department of geography in the School of Graduate Studies. My law degree comes not from U of T but from Osgoode Hall Law School, so I do have some breadth of perspective on how things work elsewhere. My association with the University of Toronto continued after my time studying there. I spent 10 years in the master’s planning program, where I was responsible for the urban development controls course in the master of science in planning program. I also appeared as a guest lecturer in a number of other university courses, including most frequently in the late Stephen Clarkson’s course on Canadian political parties. The importance of the University of Toronto to Ontario and Canada is significant and profound. In the current times, with the unprecedented challenges we are facing, I think this is more true than ever. The University of Toronto is clearly Canada’s pre-eminent institution of higher learning. As such, it’s essential to our country’s success in shaping and contributing the human capital that will ensure Canada’s future story is a positive one. Consistently ranked in the top 20 globally, the University of Toronto clearly demonstrates that Canada and Ontario are capable of offering a superior educational experience. It helps to serve as a magnet, attracting some of the best global talent. And the benefits are clear. It can be seen in driving innovation in our economy, supporting Ontario’s first-class health care system, all while supporting the culture that gives Ontario residents a superior quality of life. These are all elements that help to drive our economy forward, especially in a world where creators and innovators have more choice about where they want to live and raise their families. The University of Toronto has succeeded in this respect, in large part, by maintaining a commitment to academic rigour and rewarding achievement and merit. It is essential that this culture of excellence continue. In today’s environment, the challenges caused by trade wars, real wars and the restructuring of previously stable relationships all put that role of the University of Toronto in a more important place than previously. As the United States turns inwards and many other countries move in a similar direction, there’s an opportunity for the University of Toronto to shine as a beacon of opportunity for young, ambitious and optimistic people to make their mark and build their foundations. But it also puts the university in a place where the competition with others is tougher than ever. For Ontario’s economy to succeed, we need the University of Toronto to succeed; such is the significance in role of this key institution. There are ongoing challenges for the University of Toronto to continue to excel. One of the keys to the university’s past success has been to focus in a balanced way on the importance of a large, high-quality undergraduate cohort while maintaining superb postgraduate and research programs. The temptation for those in an institution like the University of Toronto is to increasingly focus on research and graduate programs at the expense of the undergraduate experience. This tendency and temptation must be resisted to ensure that the University of Toronto continues to play the key role that it has in the past. Another growing challenge, one that mirrors that in the Canadian economy, is to attract the best and brightest of Canadian talent to choose to stay in Canada and to study at University of Toronto. A growing trend I see in my son’s generation—he’s in high school—is that proof of success for high achievers is judged as the experience of studying elsewhere, especially in the United States or the United Kingdom. As one who has given a great deal of my life to working to build our country and one who feels a patriotic love for Canada, I find this tendency to prefer opportunity elsewhere both disappointing and alarming. It is perhaps typical of a Canadian tradition of selling ourselves short. We need to reverse this kind of thinking in the younger generation and demonstrate to them that their best futures and opportunities can be fulfilled here in Ontario. The University of Toronto has a key role to play in working toward such a future, thanks both to its objective excellence and its global reputation. That’s why there’s a strong public interest and interest of the Ontario government in ensuring the continued success of the University of Toronto. It’s my hope to be able to contribute in some small way to that project, through the opportunity to serve as a member of the board of governors of the University of Toronto. Thank you.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

Thank you very much, Peter. We will now go to the government side. You have four minutes and 53 seconds. MPP Smith.

Official source

Ms. Laura Smith

I want to thank the applicant for coming in today and talking about his experience. I’m going to cut to the chase, because we’re limited in time. You talked about the balance and the different levels of university, and you have experience in that area. You also talked about children, students, making a mark, and making a decision for our students in these complex environments. How do you think that your experience will translate into being an effective university governor?

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

Well, I will be one of 50 on the board of governors, if I am approved, so I don’t have an exaggerated sense of what my level of influence will be. But I’d hope, as I said, that if the University of Toronto can continue to focus on the things that have made it successful in the past, and that is focusing on the academic excellence, focusing on achievement, sticking to the things that matter, that people are looking for from universities—I think they’ve been very successful at that in the past, and I would like to see that focus continue. That’s where I would see my efforts in particular. There are other issues that are always important. I was going to say my planning background would have been very important for a university, which has a special place—this is a university that actually mixes with the fabric of the city; it’s not an isolated, self-contained campus, and that brings with it special challenges. The current government made significant progress to helping the position of universities like U of T by giving them greater authority in the planning area over their own ability to make decisions and shape their environment. I think that’s something that’s efficient, saves money and helps them focus on playing their role in the city a lot better, growing and managing their growth and planning their future in terms of physical infrastructure a lot better. However, that being said, I think I still might be able to contribute in some of those areas as well.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

MPP Dowie.

Official source

Mr. Andrew Dowie

How much time is left?

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

Two minutes, 49 seconds.

Official source

Mr. Andrew Dowie

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Van Loan, for being here. One of the responsibilities of being on the governing council of a university is ensuring the long-term financial health of the university. I was hoping you can share with us what principles you think are important when we’re looking at financial stewardship of an institution like the University of Toronto.

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

The University of Toronto, I think, has a pretty good track record on that level. I should say the previous president of the university was actually a former professor of mine, he was a colleague of mine when we were teaching together in the program, and then when I was a federal cabinet minister I was pleased to work with him in ensuring that there was appropriate support for some of the special programs, initiatives that University of Toronto has. University of Toronto, I think, has done well financially in terms of its own management, in terms of its alumni relations and fundraising, in terms of support from governments of all levels, and you obviously want to continue that. It can always be better. One area where I see an opportunity for continued support and growth that might be important to me is that of appropriate bursaries and scholarships, continuing to grow that part of what the university has to offer to ensure the best can come here regardless of their background. I went to U of T from, let’s just say, a very modest financial background. I understand the challenges that people have in going to university in those circumstances. But I also—and my life demonstrates it—understand abundantly the benefits one can achieve from that education and how it sets you up for the future.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

MPP Sabawy, one minute.

Official source

Mr. Sheref Sabawy

Thank you very much, Mr. Van Loan, and welcome back. I’m very happy to see your background, with all the different roles you played in the public service sector, in government, and as a policy-maker. Can you briefly describe the importance of gaining career experience or work-integrated learning in post-secondary education and how that could put our graduates in a very competitive situation with graduates from the competition, especially the US?

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

As I say, I think the real focus has got to be for the university to continue to maintain high-quality academics, attract the best students, attract the best talent in teaching, and maintain its position as the pre-eminent school, reputationally and objectively, in Canada. That is part of it. When I look at how does my own experience fit in—

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

Thank you very much. You will just have to hold that thought. Maybe someone else will carry it. We are in suspense for that. Over to MPP Gates: 10 minutes.

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

Welcome, Peter. My understanding is that you were born in Niagara Falls. Is that accurate?

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

This is totally accurate.

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

I did a lot of research on you last night.

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

There were, in fact, in the Harper government, two cabinet ministers born in Niagara Falls. So we got very good treatment when Rob Nicholson was there.

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

I’ve got a few questions. Is it accurate that you were the minister of internal government affairs under PM Stephen Harper?

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

I was Minister of Public Safety. I was Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs for a period of time. I think that’s what you were talking about—intergovernmental?

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

Is it also reasonable and fair to say that you’ve had a long career as a partisan Conservative?

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

I don’t think it takes a great deal of research to come to that conclusion, yes.

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

It’s amazing what you find out at 2 o’clock in the morning. You were also president of the Ontario PC Party under Harris?

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

Yes, and also of the PC Party of Canada.

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

There was an interesting quote that I found. It says that you were notoriously nasty to opposition parties. Is that accurate?

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

I wouldn’t say that. I was House leader for much time, and I always appreciated what the Bloc Québécois said. They enjoyed what they called a direct approach—no nonsense. “We know what your interests are. Here’s our interest.” We could get business done quickly. I remember one of my counterparts from the Bloc saying I was the best House leader he had ever worked with, and he’d been there—he was dean of the House, so I was pretty pleased with that.

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

That’s not how other people saw you. But that is fair. Is it accurate that you have donated to the PC Party?

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

Yes. That would be very accurate.

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

Can you help this committee understand how much you gave to the PC Party—do you know, say, since 2018?

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

It would be a great deal—I couldn’t tell you the number—and to the Conservative Party of Canada. I look at it from this perspective: I used to work together with a fellow named David Smith. We were a team practising law. He was, of course, a Liberal, a former Trudeau cabinet minister—Pierre, not Justin. He ultimately became a senator. He was a city of Toronto councillor, and he was Chrétien’s campaign chair. He used to say that it’s important for us, in our law firm, in general, to support the system. We want to encourage people to support the system. Our democracy is important, and that’s part of our civic duty. I think that’s the way we should all treat it. I think you, as people who will also be heading out to life elsewhere, should have the same view: that those who contribute to our democratic process, whether it be as volunteers contributing financially, or the biggest sacrifice of all, serving here for the enormous riches that are offered to those who serve—that is something that should be considered to your credit; I think in other countries, it is. I think in Canada, we’re a little bit down on politics as involvement. Your civic involvement is a good thing. I think it’s something that should be encouraged, not punished.

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

I’m going to do these questions so that I can get a few of them out. I’m only doing five minutes on you. You’re lucky. It said $24,859 to the PCs since 2018. You’re also the second, if you can imagine, past PC Party president that has been appointed this summer at this committee. I understand that you’ve donated this kind of money. The one thing you said during your minute speech there is—I agree with you—that democracy is under attack—particularly by the Conservative Party. In Niagara region, they’re going to appoint the chair and give them strong-chair powers. That is a direct violation of democracy, not having the opportunity for the residents of Niagara to vote for the chair—the same strong-chair powers for the mayors. So I’m agreeing with you that it’s important that people donate to campaigns. I’m not sure that a lot of people can afford $25,000 to donate to a party—

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

It’s over a long time. As a New Democrat, I’m sure you appreciate the notion of from each according to their means— Interjection.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

Sorry. MPP Smith, do you have a point of order?

Official source

Ms. Laura Smith

We should stick to the questioning of the individual’s credentials.

Official source

MPP Wayne Gates

Well, this has been accepted in this committee for years, and every time, you raise the same question. It’s important for everybody to know exactly who people are supporting. I don’t think there’s any doubt about Peter’s credentials, quite frankly. I also look at that. You are a PC. You’ve worked in the riding association. You’ve donated lots more money than I’ve ever done to any party. I guess that’s not a knock against you. If you can afford it, that’s what they can do. I’ll ask you a question—because you raised the university right next door to us. I see a lot of kids in the elevator, where I’m living, in my apartment. I talk to them regularly about the struggles that they’re having around paying for their university, the struggles that they have on, quite frankly, paying their rent, even being able to afford food at the end of the week. Some of those kids are going to food banks to survive, to get an education. I’m going to ask you a question that I think is fair: Are you concerned about the impact of the major OSAP cuts on working-class students, who will be saddled with thousands of dollars of debt because of changes to OSAP from a grant to a loan—75% to 25%? After you answer that, I’ll turn it over to my colleague.

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

Financial issues, I think, are always challenging. I think in Ontario, there was a decision at some point to deregulate tuitions, which made that particularly more challenging. Frankly, when I look at what tuitions are for law school right now, I think coming from the background I came from, I would have been, perhaps, a little bit intimidated about seeking to go to law school. Of course, from the other end of the telescope, I see that those are appropriate because the benefits of that education are indeed enormous. I’m not sure I would have perceived that, necessarily, at the other end of the tunnel. But I also think you have some responsibility of your own. Everybody’s experience is different, and I don’t want to say that everyone should live the same life experience I did. In fact, there are people close to me who approached things very differently and took OSAP, but I instead chose to work. I worked 40 hours a week while I was in school. I paid my way through and never took an OSAP grant or loan. For me, that was a point of pride. It was a point of pride. It was a point of independence. It meant that I had to work hard and struggle, but I was pleased to be able to have done that. And I think it’s an important part of my identity and view of myself.

Official source

MPP Alexa Gilmour

I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Mr. Van Loan. I’d like to just stay in this line of questioning around the University of Toronto. We’ve gone over the connections you have to the PC Party, the deep connections there. But I’m also wondering about—in your job at Aird and Berlis. The biography indicates that you currently lead the firm’s public policy and government relations group, advising clients on matters that are before the very government that is appointing you today. As someone who has a reputation for being so partisan, so notoriously nasty with other parties, how are you going to make that switch to the institutional, the academic, the focus on students, rather than the loyalty to a government that you are so closely connected to? And when they are making bills, how are you going to maintain that independence to be able to look after this new constituency base?

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

I’ll go back to what I said earlier. I don’t think that people should be penalized for playing their civic duty.

Official source

MPP Alexa Gilmour

Of course.

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

Frankly, we should be encouraging people to be good citizens, to support our political process. We should be honouring people who choose, like you do, to serve in public office.

Official source

MPP Alexa Gilmour

So does that mean you don’t think there are any steps you need to make or any differences, changes, you need to make?

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

One minute.

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

I’ll use a kind of odd analogy. When we were in Stephen Harper’s government, when you were at the cabinet table, there were a number of different approaches you could take. My view was always that when I was at the cabinet table, my job was to put on my Canada hat—not my York–Simcoe hat, not my portfolio hat, not my Ontario hat, not my Conservative Party hat, but my Canada hat. We were there to make decisions in the best interests of the country. I think that’s what you do when you’re in a role like that. You’re making decisions in the best interests of the institution.

Official source

MPP Alexa Gilmour

May I ask one last question with my remaining time? If the provincial funding continues to be insufficient—it’s the lowest in the country—would you be prepared to publicly advocate to this government to increase public investments in the university?

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

I think as a member of the board of governors in the University of Toronto, that’s not what my role would be. The university would have its own official way of channelling those kinds of positions, communicating with the government. As I said, I do think there is merit in always working to build those endowments that allow for greater bursaries, for greater scholarships, so that you can allow the best of—

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

Thank you very much. Sorry, again, to cut you off. Over to the third party: MPP Smyth.

Official source

MPP Stephanie Smyth

Thank you for being here today. We do appreciate that very much. As you’ve heard, it doesn’t always happen with all the intended appointees. So we’re grateful for you to be here and answer our questions. I just want to go back to the OSAP piece with you for a moment. I totally appreciate what you talked about—working 40 hours a week, you’re very proud of that, you paid for your own education. I think we are in a different, obviously, state of affairs now with the economy, with education. Costs are absolutely ballooning. We know the struggles that students are facing. We’ve seen them over and over again—the protests here at Queen’s Park. I think you said you have to have some responsibility of your own. Do you feel like OSAP was being taken advantage of by students?

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

I’m pondering what I can say from my cabinet confidentiality oaths, but I do recall, when we were in government, that one of the things that struck me was that our greatest expenditure at the federal government level was forgiving student loans in that area. I thought that was a little bit perplexing. That’s where most of the funding on the student support went—to forgiving loans. At the same time, people who had taken loans and paid them back—they didn’t get the same kind of benefit. That’s an interesting question to ponder. I think it’s worth thinking about. I don’t think it’s going to be my role at the board of governors at U of T to do that. There are folks like you in the government who will wrestle with those issues in the proper form, in the right way, in terms of public policy.

Official source

MPP Stephanie Smyth

Does it strike you as fair—the change that has been made in the funding formula?

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

Well, I will say this— Interjection.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

MPP Smith, point of order?

Official source

Ms. Laura Smith

Yes. The questions should be relevant to the applicant’s qualifications—full stop.

Official source

The Chair (Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon)

Thank you very much. Just be mindful of that, MPP Smyth.

Official source

MPP Stephanie Smyth

Okay. Then, let’s clarify. For people who don’t know, you’re an intended appointee as a member, part-time, of the governing council. You mentioned there are a number of other people on that council who would be with you. What is your role?

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

Well, my understanding is that at University of Toronto, much of the work gets done in committees. Most of the work gets done not in the main body of the board of governors or the governing council, but rather in the various committees. I’ve spoken to individuals who have served there. So to a large degree, that will depend on the luck of the draw. I mentioned a couple of areas where I thought I could make a difference, whether it be helping to focus on building up their endowments to support bursaries or helping in terms of the planning and development of the university, its buildings and ongoing integration and role in the city, where, through my planning background and so on, there might be something to offer. But those things may not be for me to choose. We’ll have to wait to see what assignments might be available if I am successful and I gain the favour of this committee.

Official source

MPP Stephanie Smyth

Given, as my colleagues have pointed out, your extensive public service and financial contributions to the party—federal, provincial—how do you think you could demonstrate in this role, to faculty and to students, that your appointment is based on institutional governance rather than on political patronage?

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

Well, again, it would be by doing the job. As patronage appointments go, as you know, this one has no compensation, so it’s not that kind of an appointment. It’s an opportunity to serve, and that’s how I view it. Again, I’ll return to it—I think it’s kind of sad to see this focus, where we think it is a bad thing to have served publicly, to have done your civic duty. I’ll tell you, the reason I got involved in politics, to a large degree, had to do with the fact—my family background is Estonian. When the Soviets occupied, the first time, then the Nazis came in, then the Soviets again—much of my family was executed, sent to Siberia. I was fortunate that my mother and parents left, though they were on the list for the deportations to Siberia. I was told by my grandmother—what was the first thing they did? The first thing the Soviets did was come and get the party membership lists. Why? Because people who had that civic duty, who believed in democracy, represented a threat to that kind of authoritarianism. As soon as we start telling people that if you get involved in politics, if you support a political party, Liberal, NDP, Conservative, that’s a bad thing—and I can tell you, there are discussions happening in boardrooms in Toronto right now and around the province, with people saying, “We better not get involved.” We’re discouraging people from supporting municipal candidates. That’s a dangerous thing. That’s bad for democracy. That’s a sad thing for our society. I think we should encourage and support that. My colleague David Smith, who I worked with for years, had the same view. We could work together. You asked, “Can I work together with others?” Obviously, we were a team—a Liberal and a Conservative working together—and both adored each other. I miss him a great deal. I was pleased to be able to speak at his retirement as a senator. That ethic—I think he put it so well when he said we’ve got to encourage civic duty and civic involvement, and not punishment and not discouraging—

Official source

MPP Stephanie Smyth

Right. And do you know what? It’s not civic duty that’s under attack here. This isn’t what we’re—

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Mr. Peter Van Loan

Don’t make it so that when someone comes to this committee, they’ve committed the sin of helping support our democratic system.

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MPP Stephanie Smyth

That is absolutely not the intent. I think it’s about just shining a light on—it’s just a context and a perspective.

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Mr. Peter Van Loan

Well, it’s not a secret what my partisan involvement is. I don’t think that’s a big deal.

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MPP Stephanie Smyth

Not in this room, maybe, but for the people of Ontario, so—

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Mr. Peter Van Loan

I don’t think it’s even a secret outside.

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MPP Stephanie Smyth

And then maybe for students who aren’t as schooled in who had what background in the past—

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Mr. Peter Van Loan

And that’s where it’s most important.

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MPP Stephanie Smyth

Absolutely.

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Mr. Peter Van Loan

Those are the young people who we need to be encouraging to support our democratic system.

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MPP Stephanie Smyth

Sir, we’re talking about impact. We’re talking about influence. We’re talking about perspective that could be taken from your previous roles into a new role. And it’s fair to ask. U of T, for instance, often takes some public stances on environmental sustainability, on equity, human rights, that could diverge from—maybe—political policy that you have adhered to or advanced. I want to ask you, with your past experience, with your expertise, with your political views, which you are very proud of, and your civic duty, which we all respect, how would you protect U of T’s academic autonomy and institutional independence when provincial policy priorities sometimes clash with university research or governance decisions?

Official source

Mr. Peter Van Loan

Well, academic freedom has got to be the cornerstone, and academic freedom is an institutional choice, in the sense of—not everybody is expected to adopt the same views. That’s the whole principle—each individual student, each individual professor, each academic there should have the freedom to express their own views, make their own choices, do what they wish. I think that has to be encouraged, and we’ve got to encourage an environment where that is. That means not allowing cancel culture, not allowing people to be intimidated for their views on campus—to allow those things to coexist, to allow debate to flourish.

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MPP Stephanie Smyth

And that in and of itself is a political statement.

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Mr. Peter Van Loan

That’s an important part of what happens at a university, and I think you want to encourage that. In fairness, I think the University of Toronto—not perfect, but through the difficult challenges of the past 10 years or so, navigated them quite well and did a good job of continuing to focus on what its real job was and to allow that diversity to flourish. As I said, not perfect—but I think when we look around the universities of North America, they did a better job than most.

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MPP Stephanie Smyth

What would you want to see your legacy be in this position? It is part-time, but maybe you would want to advance that to a full-time role, if it exists—or any kind of influence? And why a university? I know you have the history, you mentioned that—but there are all kinds of things you could do with the experience that you have had.

Official source